By Dr. Laura McGuire
On this Valentine’s Day, many of us find ourselves dreaming of finding that special someone who will make life that much sweeter. Five years ago, I had the honor of meeting two amazing women who found and have sustained that sweetness in one another—both as a couple, and as the founders of the South Daytona–based chocolaterie, Sappho Chocolates.
As I’ve gotten to know Charlotte Lambert and Darlene Duncan over the years, I’ve grown to admire not only their love, but their brilliant entrepreneurship and beautiful spirits as well. So I had to ask—what’s their secret to happiness?
I had the pleasure of speaking with Lambert and Duncan for their first-ever interview about their love story. As queer people, we’re often starved for models of successful, long-term LGBTQ relationships, something that can make us feel even further detached from the heteronormative Valentine’s Day narratives highlighted by the media. But Lambert and Duncan give us hope and a love and life story to admire and inspire us all.
Laura McGuire: First, can you introduce yourselves and tell us a bit about what you do?
Darlene Duncan: I’m a native Floridian. I’ve moved away a couple of times, but I guess that sea air and the feel of sand between my toes draws me back. I’ve worked a wide variety of jobs; from police dispatcher, to assistant manager in a pizza place, to training coordinator. I’m not going to list all of the different jobs here—everyone’s eyes would start to glaze over and the collective snoring would be heard far and wide! I’m also a published author. My books are available as Kindle books (although I still have some of the paperbacks in a closet at the house). Charlotte and I had a lawn service business that we sold years ago. We then took office jobs, which eventually ended, and now we are partners with another woman in Sappho Chocolates. We make delicious, virtually allergen-free chocolates in unique flavors, traditional shapes, and novelty shapes.
Charlotte Lambert: I grew up in a small town in Rhode Island with older identical twin brothers. When they went away to college, my parents remembered I was around. Previously, I’d been allowed to run around with my older brothers. With them gone, new ground rules about my activities were enacted, much to my dismay. Later, I followed my brothers to the University of Miami. After graduating college, I stayed in Miami. I taught physical education (PE) at a local junior high school. I then owned and operated a stained-glass business for a while, before eventually moving to Volusia County, Florida.
How long have you been together? How did you meet?
DD: Charlotte and I met at a bar called the Zodiac in South Daytona, Florida. That location is now the parking lot for South Daytona’s City Hall. It was March of 1987 and it was pouring, with typical Florida thunder and lightning. I went to the Zodiac early. Getting there early served two purposes: one, it got me out of the house. (I was living with my mother at the time). Two, if I got there early enough, I could avoid paying the cover charge. The Zodiac’s first show wasn’t until 10:00 p.m. I got there about 7:00 p.m. and was surprised to find a couple sitting at the bar. We were about the only people in the place besides staff. It was obvious they had both had more than enough to drink already, especially the shorter one. However, before I realized this, I had been pulled into a conversation with her. She kept going on and on about how she had someone she wanted me to meet.
Charlotte received a phone call from her previous partner, insisting that she come to the Zodiac for a drink. Charlotte was already home and in bed with a book on this rainy, thundering night. However, she knew that if she didn’t go, her ex would just keep calling. So, she got dressed and headed out.
In 1987, bars were dark and smoke-filled. Charlotte stopped just inside the door to let her eyes adjust to the lack of light. At the bar, she saw her ex, her ex’s new friend, and me. At the sight of me, she spun on her heel to leave. Too late—her ex had spotted her. Grinning from ear-to-ear, she brought Charlotte to the bar and introduced me. It turns out that with the glasses I wore back then, I looked like another of Charlotte’s exes that Charlotte had no desire to see again. This ex recognized the resemblance and thought it would be a fun trick to play on Charlotte to see how she would react.
Both Charlotte and I were fresh out of failed relationships and weren’t looking for anything with entanglements. We talked some that evening but not a lot. I think part of our reticence, or at least part of mine, was the way we were introduced. At the end of the night, we went our separate ways.
The next day, I decided I wanted to get to know Charlotte better, so I went by her ex’s place of business and asked where I could find Charlotte. She told me and the rest is herstory.
When did you come out of the closest? Were you already out when you two met?
DD: I came out of the closet in 1977, while I was in the United States Air Force. I fell in love for the first time with a woman named Susie in my sister flight in basic training. After basic training, she went to Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Texas, and I was sent to Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi. Whenever I could, I would fly to Dallas Fort Worth Airport from New Orleans and we would spend the weekend in a motel. What happened there, I’ll leave to your imagination. In that era, there were witch hunts in the military for homosexuals. We both knew we were risking a lot by being together. If we were caught, it would mean a dishonorable discharge. A dishonorable discharge would make it virtually impossible to find employment. Together, we decided to use the open-door policy that was in place at that time. Basically, it didn’t matter what regulation or law you were in violation of, if you went to your commanding officer and told him/her, then you could avoid a court martial and stood a much better chance of an honorable discharge. So, I went to my commanding officer and said, “I’m a homosexual.” My security clearance was pulled, and I was removed from the training program I was in. An appointment was made for me with the base psychiatrist and the separation process began. We both did this. I had an easy time of it, other than being bored with picking up trash on the base. Those were the kind of tasks those of us awaiting discharge without a security clearance were assigned. Susie, on the other hand, had a much rougher time of it. The Office of Special Investigations (OSI) would roust her out of bed in the wee hours and try to get her to name other homosexuals. She’d call her lawyer and they’d have to release her. She ended up with a general discharge.
So, yes, when Charlotte and I met, I was already out.
CL: I first realized that I felt different than most girls at age 14. I would have to say I was 40 (1986) when I slowly began to accept myself as a lesbian and come out to friends. Before that time period, my experiences coming out were not good and [coming out to] family was totally out of the question.
Who caught whose eye first, and who made the first move?
DD: When I first met her that night at the Zodiac, I thought she was pretty cute and yet, because of the circumstances, I didn’t do anything to act on that feeling. However, once the ex was no longer part of the picture, I was the one to make contact.
CL: Darlene made first contact. She was much braver than I.
Many LGBTQ young people rely so much on living in a time of relative safety, being able to be out, and finding each other on dating apps. What was it like to date as queer women before such changes?
DD: The only place to meet someone was in a gay bar. It was frustrating and dangerous. When we would take a walk on the beach to watch a sunrise or a sunset, we knew better than to hold hands. It wasn’t safe. One overly zealous nut job would be all it would take, and you could get beaten or shot. When you left a club late at night, you did your best not to go to the parking lot alone. That wasn’t safe either. In reality, the fact that our society doesn’t take women, or their sexuality, seriously, made it safer for lesbians than for gay males, but not by much.
CL: I moved from Rhode Island to Miami, Florida, to attend college. I graduated in 1970 from the University of Miami and spent the next 15 years teaching in an inner-city junior high school in Miami-Dade County. The atmosphere during the mid-1970s to the mid-1980s for the LGBTQ community was stressful as well as dangerous. Anita Bryant made it even worse. Up until recently, being LGBTQ was not a life that one might wish on another. It was important to be careful where you went and that you did not go alone. Relationships and friendships suffered under the stress. Family, co-workers, and acquaintances were not always accepting, and your job could be in jeopardy, as could your housing arrangements. There were no laws to protect the LGBTQ community at that time, and those that did exist were attacked by the likes of Anita Bryant and her organization, Save the Children. It became evident to me that it was time to leave teaching, as well as to move from Miami to a smaller town. My then partner and I moved to Daytona Beach to open a restaurant, which was her passion not mine, and that proved to be the end of our relationship.
You started a company together, Sappho Chocolates. Can you tell us how that got started? How has entrepreneurship impacted your relationship?
DD: Charlotte and I were involved in the first planning committee for Volusia Pride. That’s where we met Kathryn, who’s now our business partner in Sappho Chocolates. We became friends with Kathryn, and in 2013 around Christmas, we went to her house to watch movies and to help her box up the chocolates she’d made for friends and relatives. Chocolate making used to be her hobby. Charlotte isn’t much of a sweets eater, but when she tasted Kathryn’s truffles, they reminded her of the ones her parents used to make and send to her when she was in college. Charlotte asked, “Why aren’t you selling these?” Kathryn didn’t have a good answer. In January of 2014, we started Sappho Chocolates.
People often ask how we came up with the name. We started out researching names that we thought would be cute or chocolate-related, only to find out those domain names were already taken. Then we were talking with Kathryn about her trip to Greece, and the conversation turned to Sappho. The domain name was available, and we bought it.
As for how working together has caused our relationship to evolve, well, I’m not really sure how to answer that one. Charlotte and I have worked together for most of the 30+ years of our relationship. In 1989, we went to Tacoma, Washington, and worked for Charlotte’s brother. We were his lawn crew. In 1992, we were back in Florida and started our own lawn service. After about 10 years, we sold that, and I wrote for a while. Charlotte took an office job, and before long, I was working at the same office. When those jobs ended, we started Sappho Chocolates.
CL: Sappho Chocolates is the second company that Darlene and I have started as a couple. We have been together for 33 years, and for at least 30 of those years, we have worked together either in our own business or working for someone else. Many couples find it hard to work and also live together, but Darlene and I have not had that problem. Darlene and I helped Kathryn with packaging (and tasting) her truffles for her friends and family for Christmas six years ago, and after inquiring as to why she wasn’t selling the truffles, Sappho Chocolates was born.
We see so many love stories of straight couples who have dated for decades but rarely see inspiring examples of long-term LGBTQ couples. Who did you look to as a model for your relationship? What is the recipe for longevity that you have discovered and that others can learn from?
DD: I can’t say that I looked to anyone as a role model for anything, certainly not for a relationship.
As for the recipe for longevity, honest communication. Having a good sense of humor and being able to laugh at yourself is vital. Some people think we’re just alike, but it isn’t true. She taught me about football. I introduced her to Star Trek, Star Wars, and all things science fiction.
CL: I’m not sure exactly why, but from the beginning, we found it easy to get along and communicate with each other, and because neither of us like to fight, we didn’t. We were both just coming out of bad relationships and decided that we were not interested in a long-term relationship. In fact, I told Darlene not to move anything into my apartment that she couldn’t move out in 30 minutes. That still stands today! [laughs] Although, it would take another 30+ years just to sort out who owns what.
In all of the companies we’ve owned—and even some that we worked for—we always decided from the beginning who had 51 percent ownership (seniority) and who had 49 percent. We always chose the one with the most expertise in that particular field. In our personal relationship, we did the same.
That is not to say we agree on everything, because we don’t. There are some things on which we agree to disagree, and we stay clear of those topics.
I have never been hesitant to discuss any topic or to tell Darlene anything. Although, I would not say that I have any positive role models. I did have lots of negative role models—that is to say models who showed me what not to do in a relationship.
What is the most important piece of advice you would give to young queer couples and singles?
DD: One piece of advice? There are so many things to say to the coming generations that I’m hard-pressed to pick just one. It’s a very old statement—actions speak louder than words. When someone shows you who they really are, believe them. If you’re in a relationship or even just starting to date and the person you’re with shows themselves to be rude or controlling, or your dog/cat doesn’t like them, you should reconsider getting any further involved with that person. A friend of mine says you can only hide crazy for so long. A 90-day trial is a good test period.
CL: Communication is key, along with openness. I agree with Darlene that actions do speak louder than words. So when someone shows you who they are, believe them. Do not believe that you or your love can change them.
Last, but certainly not least, how can people get a bite of your amazing chocolates?
DD: We have a website and we ship all over the country. If you’re in the Central Florida area, you can stop by the kitchen. We sell our chocolates out of the kitchen, and on Friday nights, we’re at the DeLand Artisan Alley from 6:00–9:00 p.m. I’m not sure we’ll be there through the summer, though. Our chocolate doesn’t have fillers or any other stuff that would help it not melt. Our chocolates will definitely melt in your hand!
